Tulpa.info - tulpa-discussion

And no, there is never a time when she stops looking out of our eyes, unless all of us are collectively unconscious, like when we sleep at night

For us, the SOC is the feeling of being alive and seeing through our eyes. For us, it's just part of the brain that no one owns. Now, if we imagine our form looking through our eyes or sense our own presence behind our eyes, suddenly we're taking ownership of that SOC experience. That's the main exception

Hmm, that makes sense.

5:50 AM

So the inverse is also true? Someone intentionally using their form to disconnect from the SoC should have the opposite effect in theory?

Yes. You no longer claim ownership of the experience, so it's now just the brain again. This doesn't affect your sensory experience, because the SOC isn't affected by who takes ownership of that experience. However, breaking the association between the SOC and non-fronters may give you a bit more privacy so Mason isn't constantly dragged to the front ^^

Hmm, that sounds like it could work.

5:57 AM

We'd just need to work on reminding ourselves that we share the mind and body equally, then?

If Mason is switched-out, she no longer owns the experience of the SOC

10:59 AM

The only exception for us at least is when we possess and deliberately focus on our SOC, we can take ownership of that experience. But whoever is switched in gets priority over the SOC ownership

Iota ˗ˏˋM&M´ˎ˗

And no, there is never a time when she stops looking out of our eyes, unless all of us are collectively unconscious, like when we sleep at night

This seems to be a common problem of believing the body's stream of consciousness IS the original. The stream of consciousness will always be there perceiving the world and being the place where thoughts arise. What changes is who is associated with it. If it feels like Mason is always there, that is just a feeling, likely caused by believing the stream of consciousness/perception of the world/sense of beingness is her. "I'm seeing the world" -> Mason must be here -> Mason is here Once you can accept that the stream of consciousness can fully be another headmate and not Mason, she can stop attaching her identity to the SOC. Then she can go inactive as your other headmates do. For the fronter, everything will feel as normal, but Mason's thoughts will not be arising.

i see the stream of consciousness as the "true self", and the thoughts and feelings as different made up egos/selves, which means im just as made up, but at the same time as very real as my headmate and the "true self" is neither of us (edited)

3:47 PM

it gets very philosophical and spiritual if you dig into the whole who is who stuff

3:48 PM

and if you have the right mindset that kind of thinking can be very freeing

From what people have described, seeing the SOC as the "true host", or "true person" doesn't cause frontstuckness when the host identity/tulpa is seen as a seprate thing. It's really neat to see that alternate interpretation of the SOC pop up (at least for me) (edited)

Hmm, so what should it feel like for our host when she let's go of the SoC?

she just doesnt think anymore

4:14 PM

at least thats how it is for us, i just fade away and kinda get forgotten for a little while

4:16 PM

it feels like watching the other headmate think and do stuff or you becoming the other headmate, if you look at it with a singlet mindset

4:16 PM

which assumes you are the stream of consciousness

4:17 PM

its no different from a non-host being in the background not thinking at all in terms of how it feels (edited)

leviine

Hmm, so what should it feel like for our host when she let's go of the SoC?

That's the thing, it will just be the new fronter. It won't "feel" like anything for her because she will be absent. It won't feel like being in a void or anything. It will just be the new fronter not hearing her thoughts.

Interesting. We were practicing what we read about the SOC yesterday, and we could push her further from front, but nit completely out

4:25 PM

The thing that stopped her was but knowing how it felt, or what do do in the moment, methinks

We sometimes use inner world symbolism to switch. Yuka will move out of the mind camera's POV and into 3rd person view. Then they will go do something like sit in a chair and get comfy. Meanwhile I will take on the camera POV and feel myself switching into front. From there, I proceed to front, and I can look into the inner world to talk to Yuka if I want. Or I just proceed fronting alone. The reason I mention this, is that the mental construct of Yuka being in the inner world, gives the mind a concept of them being both not in front and accounted for. Being located symbolically in the inner world can be seen as being "far from front."

4:35 PM

Believing a headmate to be absent or present are just ways of carving your experience to be what you want it to be. With practice it sculpts the way your system functions

https://youtu.be/woSGd-8yLFs?t=86 not sure if a video link is appropriate for this channel, but both of us use this kind of visual when switching

whiffysole

Metroid Prime Intro Cutscene - 1080p HD Textures

5:44 PM

dramatic pan around and everything

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blanka

dramatic pan around and everything

music, too?

KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk

music, too?

yes

that's beautiful

leviine

Hmm, so what should it feel like for our host when she let's go of the SoC?

The SOC is what is literally "feeling" anything, the headmates decide if they say that feeling is theirs or not. For Gray and I, feeling being switched-in is like getting a report from the body (ex. report: you touched blanket!) and the switched-in fronter signing off on it, but unconsciously. Technically, you can remove the headmates from the equation and nothing would change from a feeling perspective. However, the brain needs a headmate to front, so that's not going to happen in real life. Basically, when Mason switches out, whoever is switched in should well... be the person feeling the SOC. Gray mentioned he felt like a program when he switched out- detatched and missing something he was used to having. But our sensory experience, our SOC, never changes when we switch (edited)

Interesting, got it.

@blanka I can try and help you figure out switching if you want, but now may not be a great time unless you're okay with tired tulpamancy™️ I remember talking to you guys about switching before I don't remember what I already told y'all. I also want to ask about your expectations for switching and what your current experiences are

4:16 AM

I didn't want to forget asking

4:17 AM

Hence ping and such

Tired Ranger tends to be the most amusing Ranger though

I guess switching can be funny, but I'm trying to restrain myself given this is #tulpa-discussion

4:44 AM

If you want tired me unhinged though... Ask me in #lounge

4:44 AM

No

4:44 AM

#lotpw

4:44 AM

I'll be singing Lion King and shit

how does lion king help with switching

I have no idea, but I do have the ability to make anything tulpa related (edited)

4:50 AM

THE CIRCLE OF SWITCH

4:50 AM

Okay aside from that joke I may need to actually think about it more

4:51 AM

Simba looks into the water -> Mufasa is triggered to the front (edited)

4:52 AM

Mufasa is a er... dad tulpa

The longer I think about it the wilder ideas I'll come up with

4:54 AM

"Everything the light touches is our kingdom" -> Tulpas setting boundaries, host can't front while tulpa is doing schoolwork Rafiki adding the red mane to Simba -> deviation "Run away Scar. Never return" -> Tulpa banned from the front (edited)

4:59 AM

=== These feel more like tulpa memes than actual advice at this point so I'll stop now. If you wanted me to string actual tulpa advice from the Lion King I would have a much harder time

Ink🧶

how does lion king help with switching

oyou sing hakuna matata and suddenly your form becomes older

Oh right this was lion king posting I'm going to ramble about vocality and switching instead Switching and vocality do seem really similar in some ways. Both seem highly dependent on mindsets and expectations for instance. When considering alien voice vocality and wonderland switching, doubt seems to be less of an issue for those who do report achieving those things (regardless if it works or not). But the more I think about it, the more the similarities break down. People can doubt the switching experience like anything else in tulpamancy, but it's nowhere as bad as vocality because you're doing something new, not fighting against a taught assumption about the human mind. People aren't culturally fed anti-switching thinking, but it is taught that you are your brain. Look at cartoons, when you "brain swap" suddenly you are in someone else's body. Anything in your head is "imaginary" or "just you" if the stigmatized topic even comes up. It is well understood imaginary friends are just you. Unlike switching, vocality is about rejecting what you were taught, which is a big ask. The other difference is vocality isn't as difficult to explain or grasp as switching. Your tulpa using mind voice (for most people's definition of vocality) is pretty specific, as most people have a mind voice they have experienced. That isn't difficult to grasp, unlike with switching's typical "you'll know it when it happens". Switching takes if you can literally feel the experience or not into question, while vocality is more straightforward in that sense. It was interesting to think about, but overall I don't think this thought experiment is particularly useful for beginners

A long kiss goodnight

Oh right this was lion king posting I'm going to ramble about vocality and switching instead Switching and vocality do seem really similar in some ways. Both seem highly dependent on mindsets and expectations for instance. When considering alien voice vocality and wonderland switching, doubt seems to be less of an issue for those who do report achieving those things (regardless if it works or not). But the more I think about it, the more the similarities break down. People can doubt the switching experience like anything else in tulpamancy, but it's nowhere as bad as vocality because you're doing something new, not fighting against a taught assumption about the human mind. People aren't culturally fed anti-switching thinking, but it is taught that you are your brain. Look at cartoons, when you "brain swap" suddenly you are in someone else's body. Anything in your head is "imaginary" or "just you" if the stigmatized topic even comes up. It is well understood imaginary friends are just you. Unlike switching, vocality is about rejecting what you were taught, which is a big ask. The other difference is vocality isn't as difficult to explain or grasp as switching. Your tulpa using mind voice (for most people's definition of vocality) is pretty specific, as most people have a mind voice they have experienced. That isn't difficult to grasp, unlike with switching's typical "you'll know it when it happens". Switching takes if you can literally feel the experience or not into question, while vocality is more straightforward in that sense. It was interesting to think about, but overall I don't think this thought experiment is particularly useful for beginners

Yeah, there is SOME fuzziness as to when "switching" happens, but not as much as I remember (all the way back in 2014) it being difficult to tell when Blanka was first talking. Of course it's all just "believing she's talking," and I grokked that in the end. For switching, the difficulty is accessing the ability to "step back." It's something that happens unconsciously, and it's something I am struggling to do on purpose. I've done it successfully a couple times, but it's hard to stay back, especially when something requires much focus or reaction times--feels like anything with reflexes will kick me back to the driver's seat. Practice is just "doing it," so my next goals are 1. doing it more repeatedly and 2. getting Blanka to play some games with slower reaction times to build up to her real goal

Tupper's strong will to stay in front + if you end up in front hand control back over + practice/time

4:15 PM

Also understanding that a lot of the brain/body functions feel like the original and may trigger them, but it's actually generic. Your tup will have to get used to how it feels and not let that make them doubt they are in control (edited)

Yeah, that's definitely something she's noticed. Everything "feels" the same as when I'm in front, but she's the one driving. Can make it hard to tell who's on first sometimes, but "not thinking about it" is a valid tactic to deal with that lol

Just assume she's in front if not sure and she's supposed to be

2

4:34 PM

She can ground her identity by thinking "I am Blanka, I am in control" and thinking about Blanka specific stuff

yeah that works pretty good

Oh right we have slow switching that freezes who's switched in until the next consent ritual. Affirmations are useful for switching corrections but for us our switching doesn't break just because Gray is triggered (summoned) by something. Right now Gray is switched in, if he wanted to he can get up from me typing. If we got interrupted, Gray would respond

https://discord.com/channels/431579755037589505/431895651266330644/1131302345477730456 @ Lumi Huh what? But that's literally what tulpamancy is? I would never tell people "just believe", but I do tell people all the time, especially to singlets unfamiliar with tulpamancy, that tulpamancy is convincing yourself there's another person in your head and it just works. I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if it turns out for some people, there really is nothing more to it ...I do feel like I'm completely missing the point though

8:48 PM

Luminesce: I said literally everything as I meant to, I don't know how to re-explain (edited)

8:51 PM

"Tulpamancy advice would be full of constant "Just believe in your tulpas, never doubt them at all, have blind faith", but we don't do that because it sounds awful to anyone even lightly skeptical. I myself pre-tulpamancy would've reacted "So, there's nothing actually to this experience, you just have to pretend and convince yourself you're actually experiencing something". But the trick is that believing actually starts to shape a real experience, real neural connections in your brain, and will end up being an experience that requires no faith whatsoever - but that's not intuitive, so just saying "Just believe don't doubt" would come off as much worse than it would be in practice"

placebo is a hell of a drug

9:00 PM

/hj

Ah, I see

9:01 PM

I guess I disagree that straight up telling people it's about convincing yourself is bad

or, maybe, "fake it 'til you make it"

People do share that a lot

i think lumi might be talking from experience, there were a few people on this server that reacted in the way that he describes

9:03 PM

in my view it is more prosuctive to guide someone towards believing it without eezplaining them how those things work beforehand

9:03 PM

im sorry about typos im in bath

9:04 PM

explaining is fine later

Leiko

i think lumi might be talking from experience, there were a few people on this server that reacted in the way that he describes

I guess I'm of the opinion that's a good thing You need to convince yourself you have tulpas, that ain't my job. I don't want to put tulpas in your head

Leiko

im sorry about typos im in bath

leiko confirmed to actually bath-post. the pinnacle of luxury

hey i do it more often

9:06 PM

used to have gin and tonic too

A long kiss goodnight

I guess I disagree that straight up telling people it's about convincing yourself is bad

Luminesce: Since it's literally true, it's fine in my eyes that people do it occasionally (edited)

9:07 PM

My point was just that the reason everyone doesn't do it constantly is because it gives the wrong idea to skeptics

9:08 PM

Well, not necessarily when done more tactfully, like when I explain that belief starts to shape your brain into having a more legitimate experience (edited)

9:08 PM

And that the initial experience you can have by "Just imagine it right now" isn't what the end goal is like

Reisen

My point was just that the reason everyone doesn't do it constantly is because it gives the wrong idea to skeptics

I think if a skeptic gets that opinion they clearly don't understand and need to do more research or have it better explained to them. Ultimately, tulpas being fake is an ironic train of thought. You can... literally roleplay to make real tulpas. If you don't want to buy into the idea a brain can have multiple headmates

okay I think it's perfectly fine to acknowledge someone's feelings- "This is bullshit?" Yes! Welcome to tulpamancy! How many people would leave right then and there if they weren't trolling? And if they did leave, wouldn't it bother them I am comfortable telling them this? (edited)

I go with roundabout ways like "talk to/think of your tulpa as if they are a real person until they start feeling real" or such variations

A server I’m in has Pluralkit in it, and part of me wants to use it, but the other part of me says “no don’t that’s a terrible idea”

12:59 AM

“You’re only doing it to attention-seek”

1:00 AM

(For context, it’s a productivity/study server with all singlets)

i mean, it's there for a reason, no?

Yeah, but…still.

1:01 AM

When I think of the reasons I should use it, it all feels very superficial and cringey of me

Why would they have one ? If they didn’t expect people to use it

“So I can allow multiple people in my system to be considered individuals” “So we can set a good example for what a system is” “So people will ask us questions we can answer”

use it if you feel more comfortable doing so

yeah, no reason to use it if you feel bad about using it. But might be worth figuring out why you'd feel bad about it

1:03 AM

You say "attention seek" but what if another part of your system wants to speak up? Why would the server admins have it there if not for that purpose?

1:03 AM

Especially Pluralkit, Tupperbox at least has the fig leaf of "also for roleplayers"

use it if you feel like being yourselves is more comfortable than just proxying or w/e behind your main, but if it's too much of a headache to do then i get why you shouldn't

1

Mason has wanted to make more friends on her own, so maybe the distinction would be helpful in allowing her and the rest of us to differentiate ourselves more clearly.

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TRUE STORY once on my work pc i was on discord i wanted to check a comman for tupperbox so i googled and clicked i had some new security software installed it blocked the website as a threat and flagged something was on my pc i was so terrified, i knew pc was fine but now it wil know what website i visited